CrunchGear

What’s a Zune? ;-)

I agree, it kind of sucks to see it on sale so soon.

But, do you know what the loss was for XBox in 2002? I don’t have any official figures, but analysts have publically estimated about $750m. I don’t know if that figure is accurate, but I do know we did not post a profit on it. Now it’s the market leader.

Of course you know this, but all good companies make lots of investments.. and most of them aren’t profitable in thier first iteration.

No! They’ll have to call it Zune Messiah. Geddit?

P.S. Where’d you find this bargain price? I was seeing big huge stacks of Zunes at the retailers I visited this weekend. You know, the kind of dusty old Murrrican retailers that rhyme with ‘beers’ and ‘gay fart’ … STACKS of them I say. I totally think the Murrrican people don’t Get the Zune.

I hate Microsoft. Always have, always will. Don’t need a reason either (Although they’re easy to come by). I just hate ‘em.

That’s a good price indeed. The Zune is not as bad as some are making it out to be. Yeah it’s a little thick but once you get case or skin for the Ipod it thickens up too.

What store has them for that price?

I was going to start a long rebuttal on how I hate Apple but I’m going to be civil and refrain from making comments that don’t pertain to the actual topic….ahem. Besides, maybe you love Linix.

Who cares really? Every company/platform has it’s fanboys (and girls) and every fanboy hates the other group’s fanboys so why bother bringing it up?

Bottom line is that the Zune will do fine. They will come out with a in-house developed second gen model and it will be better in (one would hope) all the ways this one isn’t. This is how market introductions work. Just look at the origional XBOX and the 360. The first one was just slapped together with off the shelf PC parts, while the 360 was fully fleshed out and developed in-house from the ground up, enhancing the successes and makeing the weak parts better.

Will the Zune ever beat the iPod? Hard to tell. Doesn’t look promising right now because everyone and their uncle has one of the things. Talk about conformity. Oops, sorry, that was almost a rant.

CS

$158
of course, the contact info says Zaragoza, Spain

I agree with Chris, it’s all about the next Zune. Thinner, lighter, more wifi. What could possibly go wrong?

Matt, you shouldn’t base your whole story on something you saw at Stupid Prices. Afterall, they are called that for a reason, and that’s why love them. ;-)

From personal experience, I love my Zune. I had an iPod but it died after 1.5 years. I still keep an iPod shuffle for workouts (and its great for that!). But I took my Zune on vacation recently and really enjoyed it. The interface is so much more visual and aesthetic. I watched an entire movie on it and listened to about 40 songs and still had a charge left. Most of the early problems with the Zune Marketplace have been resolved with the firmware update about a month back. There are still some drawbacks like the point-purchase system which hopefully will be scrubbed. Overall, the sound quality and video resolution is much better than the iPod and a better price (especially now). Battery charge seems longer too. The device itself is great just need to work out some kinks in the Zune Marketplace.

The Zune has to be one of the worst products Microsoft have ever made. I seriously doubt it will ever make money. The damage has been done with Zune 1. Do Microsoft really think that people will be the next release of Zune given how bad the original is.

The Zune hate is completely unjustified. The device is no worse than an iPod. I’m really not sure why people are so down on it. I’ve had one since early Nov. and have had no problems with it.

Did you think that MS would see a profit on the first quarter launching this product? Most of the money is going towards marketing–did you think they would be instantly profitable? This is a terrible article.

I dont hate the hardware (although I think it is not nearly as nice as the iPod and other Mp3 players.. like the new samsung)
what I hate is the deal and the software…

like universal getting a kickback
like the amazingly restrictive DRM and the gimped sharing capabilities (which imposes DRM which on podcasts is actually illegal.. not that it has a podcast feature… another thing to hate…)

Zune is crap and will die once the touchscreen ipod comes out.

Don’t worry about it Blake, people are just haters by nature. It’s all about the Apple VS Microsoft fanboy material bullshit at the end of the day, it is just a bunch of sad freaks who have nothing better to do than argue about who’s better. Personally own 2 iPods, could give a crap what player is better or worse, it’s a boring argument and just pathetic.

What store was that? I would gladly pay $168 for a Zune. I already own one and my wife really wants one!

$168 seems sort of pricey for a door stop? Maybe there’s a golden ticket inside for a chance to enter Mr. Gates Chocolate Factory?

Where did you get that number? How do you figure Microsoft lost $289 million? After marketing costs? Where is your reference?

Unlike Xbox & Xbox 360, Zune is sold at a profit by Microsoft. Day one. They don’t “make money on software” like game systems. If the stores sells it at $168, the store loses!

I’ll buy’em all up at that price. The people who hate Zune, or like to laugh at Zune, are the ones who haven’t owned one. I’ve had mine two months and wouldn’t trade it.

Hey, that Globe & Mail link doesn’t cite Zune or the numbers quoted by CrunchGear. It’s more about deferred OS sales because of the timing of the Vista launch. Is there another reference site?

MS were losing at least $50 per zune, and they’re losing money on every xbox (360) still. In terms of profits both are huge failures. Even in terms of number they’re failures. PS2 outsold xboxes in 2006. and even ipod AC charges are outselling zunes.

You’ll probably see a lot of Zunes as MS has to ship 1 million by june although they will not have sold anywhere near this many

A lot of MS marketing money actually goes towards making their product sound as if they’re selling better than they actually are…

[quote]Unlike Xbox & Xbox 360, Zune is sold at a profit by Microsoft. Day one. They don’t “make money on software” like game systems. If the stores sells it at $168, the store loses! [/quote]

Actually, the Zune was originlly going to sell at $300, to match the then cost of the iPod. Apple counteracted and started to sell at $250, and M$ had to bite the bullet and cut their cost too. And since the sales are continuing to dwindle…they do actually sell somehow….M$ is taking a huge loss at selling the Zune right now.

Let’s wait and see what happens when the 2nd gen Zune comes out. Maybe it’ll sell, or get slammed by the 6th gen iPod.

scelza, their profit is less at $250 list: BUT IT IS STILL NOT SOLD AT A LOSS. Microsoft is not taking per unit “huge loss” - sorry, Zune doesn’t cost more than $200 to build.

How the hell do you people know anything about Microsoft’s books? And so what if the Zune is sold at a loss? I would venture to guess the iPod was sold at a loss in its early years too. It doesn’t matter at this point. The important thing here whether Microsoft will follow through on its promise to continue investing in the Zune. My bet is they will and before too long we will see some pretty cool home media systems based on an entire line of Zune-branded products.

Regarding one of the comments above…don’t blame MS for DRM. You can thank the major labels for that one. It’s DRM that makes buying digital music from any end-to-end model (iTunes or Zune Marketplace) clunky.

I think mostly because noboay really want a Zune, They get a Zune as a X-Mas gift or something like that, otherwise how can be 25% discount?

Can you see a stack of iPod with 25% discount in store ?

I didn’t even know that Microsoft had come out with an MP3 or digital music player until I saw Steve Jobs compare the Zune to the iPod at the latest Mac convention speech.

I started to look into them and though the Zune does do some interesting stuff, I really don’t think it’s going to take off. First, the market is already flooded with the iPod and iTunes, and the market is just continuing to grow. It’s a bleak outlook for Microsoft.

Now, I’m not a Microsoft hater. My husband has a Dell, I bought him an Xbox 360 for his birthday. I run MS Office on my Mac. It is no doubt that to date, Microsoft has held the flood in the business world much like Apple has held the flood in the digital music world.

Unlike Apple, Microsoft has not come out with any ground-breaking or even ground shaking products.

While Apple is upgrading its entire line of computers to have intel processors, Microsoft was working on Vista. While Apple was updating the iPod, Microsoft was still working on Vista. While Apple was introducing the iPhone, guess what, Microsoft was STILL working on Vista.
I have no doubt that Apple is already almost finished with something else that will “WOW” the masses to be introduced shortly.

Microsoft held all the cards for a very long period of time, being the most widely used and most readily available and compatable Operating System (and an open Operating System at that).
The tables are slowly beginning to turn.

The iPod has awaken the world to a company that was long forgotten. When people find a product they love they try to see what other good things they can get from that same company. Now, they are finding a world of computers, displays, and software that has been ready to compete with the Microsoft world for some time now, but never got the chance.

Apple went beyond software and has continued to do so, Microsoft suddenly finds themselves trying to catch up.

Microsoft isn’t hurting yet and probably won’t for a very long time. They still certainly hold that extra Ace by holding most of the buisness software in the palm of their hand, but as the awareness of Apple and OS X increases I think that will begin to change.

My company has already said that the moment accounting software is made for the Mac they are replacing all PCs in the building with Macs and imposing a “NO PC” rule for the entire building.

I sure wish M$ would take advantage of the Zune’s Wifi capabilities.

Powerchucking piece of crap.

the ipod sucks, all you can do is play music and video’s and look at your fucking pictures wheras the zune has radio wi-fi and customizable background you can make it your own. so does anyone have a good reason why they hate zunes and why ipods are better.

That’s amusing, especially the name. Listening to music, watching videos and looking at pictures are the iPod’s primary functions, so what’s your point? I have no real reasons, other than the software to hate the Zune, but I do have reasons why the iPod, at present, is still better. You didn’t give any reasons why the iPod sucks or why you hate it, other than giving a few things it can do, even though it does a bit more.

The iPod supports higher quality codes (especially video), and has the option of being a mass storage drive. It has a wider array of products for different lifestyles has superior interface software (spare me the iTunes sucks spiel, the hardware may be nice, but the Zune software sucks). The iPod presently has more extras such as the calendar, contacts list, stopwatch, games and support for a digital camera (with an extra accessory). The Zune isn’t the first to come out with a built-in radio. If anything, it’s pretty late. It’s saving grace on that one is that the iPod only has this option with a $30-$50 accessory upgrade, otherwise is non-existent. The WiFi right now is a nearly useless feature, as it’s volume dependent, meaning a person who knows no other Zune owners will not likely ever take advantage of it until a firmware update changes things, expanding its functionality. The WiFi feature is also terribly frustrating since tracks don’t have to play all the way through to count as one play in the 3×3 rule. And the fact that the zune software wraps all tracks, including content under the Creative Commons license and even tracks you produce yourself in the insidious DRM, it’s positively loathesome.

A customizable background is actually a nifty feature, but isn’t at all groundbreaking or particularly special. I can do this on my cell phone. Big woop. I can go on and on, at present Microsoft needs to do more, because this first wave product is not going to shake anything off of any pedestal. I’d sooner point one to a Creative Zen Vision:M before I ever point one to the Zune, because it has wider software interface support and has superior codec support to both it and the iPod.

Mel you are sadly a tool. I cannot believe i actually read that hog wash. If you even had a clue about apple you would know that Intel is more of a downgrade from their previous provider which was motorolla as well as microsoft has the xbox360 which was not ground breaking like the ps3 but it is slaughtering it and is definitely ground shaking.

The whole rise of apple has been contributed mainly by the ipod though there was an event long ago that had similar results and that was the imac. People went goo goo and gaga over the imacs and they started taking place in most classrooms and buildings then after sometime the raving finally ran out. Same speculatory responses as well as anti-MS speech is going on as it was back then.

Apple is just a lifestyle sort of thing which is their pitch. It seems to be some sort of revolution since people tend to not think for themselves and need leaders of companies to tell them what they need. Then let people who bash products be the 2nd decider for them.

Now if only creative had good tech support… they would be above everyone since the zen vision m > all

If you really one, you should buy it at ebay. Tons and tons of people selling it. Just like rats trying to get to higher ground on a sinking ship.

“But, do you know what the loss was for XBox in 2002? I don’t have any official figures, but analysts have publically estimated about $750m. I don’t know if that figure is accurate, but I do know we did not post a profit on it. Now it’s the market leader.”

No, the XBox360 is still sold at a loss, and the Zune is sold at a loss too. The $289m loss is from the Zune/XBox division from Microsoft’s latest accounts, as reported last week.

Microsoft confirmed last year that the Zune was being sold at a loss. They confirmed last week that the XBox is still sold at a loss. They hope the division will be profitable by 2008 or 2009, they claim. This isn’t speculation, but factual statements from Microsoft.

Idont’ care which device is better. Unless you own stock in one of companies the success or failure of either product will little or no effect on you.

Dear Mr ‘FA’;
Hello. I’m a pro photographer.
ALL my 80Gb iPod can do is play my songs (2631)
and my podcasts (83)
and my videos (32)
and my movies (12)
and my audiobooks (4)
and my tv shows (3)
and keeps my calendars handy (2)
and lets me play simple games (3)
and stores and displays photos from the last weeks shoots (1600)
and is an external hard drive to store backup client wedding photos (1200)
and keeps a thousand peoples’ phone numbers handy
and lets me set a stopwatch timer or a wake up alarm
AND it is not yet two thirds full.
It fits in my pocket, lasts all day, has a screen too bright for night viewing and makes my $30 noise canceling headphones look cool.
Now if only Apple made a phone.
Hold on…

Chris,
You say this is how market introductions work….the second generation will be better.
Wrong. This is how poor market introductions work. The first iPod was miles ahead of the competition and the OS and iTunes software that came with it were best in class. That’s how it’s done right and that is why iPod has 75% of the market and Zune has less than 2%.
A second half-assed Zune effort and the whole Zune brand will be history.

WOW…I can’t believe some retailer believes he can move them at $168! Piece of advice: Make an offer…like $99 if your a Microsoft fanboy.

Hey guys, lets just take a break on the hating. It gets to be a pain after a while.

Buy what you like and enjoy it. Trying to put down the other companies just makes everyone look dumb. Problems with equipment is good info for someone looking to buy, but “J just hate apple cause they are the more popular” sounds dumb from someone buying a PC cause they are more popular. :-)

Microsoft is very big and entrenched. They have an almost captive market. If anyone kills Microsoft, it will be Microsoft. IBM owned the computer world and then came out with the IBM PC. It took IBM to kill the IBM PC so bad that they had to sell it to Lenovo.

So, kids, be nice and play together well. LOPL

Elder Norm

Quacky, You got a problem with Murricans? They have computers, go on the internet and read forums too. Probably, like many consumers, haven’t found a compelling reason to buy a Zune. What are you doing shopping in a dusty old Murrican retailer anyways? Your comments were ignorant.

There is a difference in the xbox vs the zune. When the Xbox came out there were only 2 players nintendo Gameboy and Sony PS2. both are great depnding on what you like to do. Nintendo has always pushed themselves as the more family oreinted. They also has the top selling portable till sony PSP but even now the nintendo DS is a hot seller. Anyway when Xbox came out it didnt sell well at first. It stil is no where near the PS2. yea it beat the gamecube out but the gamecube didnt play DVDs either and at the time it was released that was a big thing to have a DVD player in your system. NOw the PS3 comes out its going well. The nintendo Wii is going like crazy. Its not the best graphics its not the fastest processor but its cool it is fun. I have a friend who has xbox360 PS3 and gamecube and wii. he says the Wii is so much fun and so interactive you cant put it down. he says for ultimate graphics geeks they may not like it because some of the people dont look real but he says its a matter of fun. PLsu with Wii you can download all of nintendos history and go play old games. PS3 has the blu-ray drive in it making it good. I think its over priced a bit but like everything else it will come down. I have to admit Xbox 360 looks like something apple would make. But MS learned from thier xbox mistakes. Its still not the greatest and still has its problems.

Anyway sure the xbox sold allot and xbox 360 more. BUt when the 260 came out there was no other next gen gaming system yet. they were first and lots of people are early adopters. They are only competeing with 2 other companies and they will never outsell the PS3. sony has kept one thing right you can use all your old games. mS failed on that point.

In the world of ipod vs zune. When the ipod came out it did not lose money infact it sold like crazy. Then itunes store came out and it sold even more. There was not allot of other players in the market at the time the ipod came out. Plus nothing at all like the all in one interface and simplicty of the ipod and itunes. (by the way i have an ipod and i dont have any drm on it. all you do is buy cds and then import then to you ipod. Or buy thing from itunes and burn it then make it an mp3 and put it on your ipod boom no more DRM. But my point is the Zune is a left over toshiba gigabeat that has zune software on it. It doesnt sell and its not going to there are way to many other players out there. Plus all the ones MS pissed off by making the zune and dropping them. I love the ipod i dont care if it has cool backgrounds i never look at it excpet when changing songs. I go for style and ease of use. My ipod is easy i just plug it in and it works always. look at the new ipod shuffle its so cool it just clips on. When the first shuffle came out everyone said it would fail people wanted screens to look at but it didnt and now the new ipod shuffles are selling great. MS has not only ipod but the best buy/sandisk/ to compete with and personally the sandisk looks better then the zune by far. Creative has several players and so do many other companies. When the ipod came out it was differnt it was unique and it took off. the zune is unique too i dont know of any other poop colored players but other then that its not that great. Who cares about sharing via wifi or an FM radio. If i wanted to listen to the radio i wouldnt be buying an ipod. I want a place to store and play my music and pictures. The iphone is awesome and when apple does something like that with an ipod it will shake the earth.

Apple is a great company and for your info the intel switch was an upgrade not downgrade. Intel chips have become faster and comsume less power per watt used. They are smaller and lighter (good for laptops) And intel can do things for apple IBM would not. Apple was a small part to IBM and they did not spend the time developing the chips Apple needed. Intel is fat up with MS for going to AMD and they know APple has a great product and are more willing to work with Apple and develope chips and so forth and spend the extra work to make apple happy that IBM would not do.

These are the biggest problems with the Zune (in my opinion).

•The Zune is a re-branded Toshiba Gigabit player that is thicker, heavier-looking and blockier than an ipod.
•The wheel at the bottom isn’t touch sensitive like the patented ipod scroll wheel.
•The Zune is incompatible with songs purchased from iTunes (where over 75% of digital music is purchased)
•The Zune is also incompatible with all other music stores using MS PlaysForSure DRM (ironic that Microsoft doesn’t even support the format they previously endorsed and licensed to third-parties like Napster, MSN Music, Urge, etc).
•You have to purchase Zune content using MS Points. In an attempt to confuse the consumer, Microsoft sells 80 points for $1. Therefore,