CrunchGear

Who says Microsoft coppies from Apple!?

hannibalchew, I remember reading posts and reports last year with MS execs that a Zune-branded phone was in the works, before the Zune even hit the market place, which would make it confirmed (at least, as far as being in the production timeline) well before Apple even confirmed the (codename) iPhone ever existed.

They said they wouldn’t get to it until at least this year, but that was among the few models set to join the Zune product line.

They might make it if they rebrand an existing phone, like they did with the Zune. Designing, sourcing, building, shipping, distributing and — don’t forget — getting FCC approval (a process of 4-6 months) might put them outside of Christmas.

This sounds like Microsoft FUD designed to add uncertainity to the sector to me.

No idea if this is true, but Microsoft has been building phones via software for years. To say a MS-hardware phone would be a copy of Apple is pretty absurd. Again, this is the first I’ve heard so I have no idea if it’s true..

Since when did “connects to XBox 360″ become a selling feature I am suppose to care about? This is like “we got parental controls” BS they are pushing… microsoft, with all the resources they have, have an amazing record of producing crap and worse yet, aren’t even able to put their brains together to come out with anything beyond grade 9 marketing.

Connects to ipod, connects to PS3… heck, even “connects to your VHS” would be a step up…

Jon

I agree. Connecting to a gaming console from a cellular phone is of absolutely no concern to many. In fact, I find it pretty ridiculous. Even if I owned an XBox, I couldn’t imagine why I’d want to connect this vaporware phone to it. The Zune should be able to do this wirelessly, which is in it’s capacity, but alas it doesn’t. So far the iPhone brings some very interesting looking hardware, and has a very slick interface. Microsoft will have to work overtime to make this anything but a me-too initiative. But being Microsoft, it wouldn’t be surprising. Perhaps the only thing going for them so far is that Cisco Systems isn’t suing them for the brand name.

What a load of rubbish! I call shenanigans on your “tip.”

What are you talking about !? I DEFINATELY want to stream content from my 360. The 360 works as a media extender. Hell, it makes sense that the Z-Phone will just be another type of media extender.

Look at this year’s CES show. The Windows Home Server. The Z-Phone, the 360 all tying in with that. Very powerful. I was EXTREMELY excited about the iPhone until they decided to shaft third party developers in typical (hold your tongue and say) Apple fashion, this is one thing MS will never do. Let’s face it, Apple has the iPod and what other successful platform (waiting for an answer). Steve Jobs is nothing more than a marketing show.

Apple might shut out third party support for the phone, but OS X definitely does not. Since when was it “Apple fasion” to cut out third party development? They have conventions where third party developers congregate. There’s plenty of third party software available for OS X, but most developers far and wide favor the more ubiquitous platform, whose software is inferior to UNIX based operating systems. We have to actually see what happens with the iphone come release, because until it does become available to the public, it’s to be regarded as rumor.

As for connection to the XBox, this won’t be nearly as important as the other functions a media-centric smartphone must perform. Until more details become available, this one tidbit isn’t very compelling.

The Mac computer systems are hardly a failure, and actually made a good jump in sales recently. They certainly draw more profit than the XBox does, which, if I’m not mistaken, is still taking a loss, though not as much.

Also, connection to Zune software is not that big of a selling point until major improvemens are made to it. So far it’s like saying Ericssons hook up to Sonicstage. Big deal.

One of the downsides to the iPhone is that it’s priced for business users, but doesn’t operate within the bounds necessary to business users (exchange). This phone could be more successful because it would be more likely to fit seamlessly into the computer world that businesses use. It’d also be a great addition to MS’s failing zune product line that might help push the product.

The iPhone is expensive, but is not a business phone. It’s more of a lifestyle device, and would sooner compete with Razrs and sidekicks before Treos and Blackberries and Moto Q’s. The Razr had an asking price of $500 when new, and it was just as much a piece of crap as it is now.

> No idea if this is true, but Microsoft has been building phones via software for years. To say a MS-hardware phone would be a copy of Apple is pretty absurd.

To say that MS has been building phones for years is also pretty absurd. MS has offered a handful of O/Ss to phone developers under the Windows monniker (despite none of them sharing any code with the Windows O/S), which together command less than a tenth of the market share held by Symbian. For that matter, the Zune itself isn’t “built” by MS - it’s largely derived from the Toshiba Gigabeat.

The Xbox and Xbox 260 are the only platforms (as opposed to peripheral devices) that MS built - and it’s lost money on them since their introductions.

http://www.thestreet.com/_googlen/newsanalysis/techsoftware/10300076.html?cm_ven=GOOGLEN&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

> I was EXTREMELY excited about the iPhone until they decided to shaft third party developers in typical (hold your tongue and say) Apple fashion, this is one thing MS will never do.

Not just absurd, but flat-out wrong. MS shafted *all* of its PlaysForSure partners by releasing the Zune with a non-PlaysForSure DRM system.

Now that they have something to copy I am sure Bill and Steve will spend billions and billions to try and copy iPhone. Call me when they start distributing ZunePhone version 3. On second thought…I’ll call you.

MS didn’t shaft any partners mr. Click. They still supports playsforsure and there are many playsforsure devices.

I think they went our of their way to make sure they weren’t shafting anyone by creating another music service.

I for one patietly await Zune phone!

BWHAHAHAHAH! yer kiddin’ right? AHAHAHAHAHA!

AAAHHAHAHA…nice picture tho…quality photoshopin’ that…

a wireless 360 connection = i will buy this instead of the iPhone

score one for MS

I wonder if this relates to the announcement today of the “Retirement” of Bryan Lee and the transition of J Allard (who headed the original Xbox development) as the head of the Zune team?

It sure seems that these two events are, in some way, connected; hmm, kind of like the Xbox 360 and the Zune Phone.

Best wishes,
Kimmy

Seems pretty clear this is problematic and plays into Apple’s hands.

Just consider the strategic problems:

1. Their own media strategy continues to be a jumbled, disconnected mess. (It’s funny you claim that it’ll get video from the XBox when the Zune can’t do so.)

2. It’s Zune strategy is a mess. #1 By making wi-fi the “it” feature, they have hamstrung themselves in getting a nano-like device out… size and battery life being more significant in this form factor. #2 Presumably this would involve close tying of the device and marketplace, is Microsoft going to embark on a carrier exclusivity deal to ensure their marketplace doesn’t compete with or get locked out by carriers? #3 The “larger” screen was also a selling point, but Microsoft has claimed touchscreens are undesirable: is Microsoft going to compromise screen size for a keyboard?

3. It would be diametrically opposed to their mobile phone strategy. Microsoft’s strength in this category is Exchange and Office support. This is not the market for a Zune phone. MS Mobile is not particularly strong at media functionality.

4. Both Zune and a Zune phone are opposed to their platform strategies. Zune DOES shaft its PFS partners. A Zune Phone would be much more problematic in the MS Mobile market unless it was so crippled (basic functionality with Zune abilities) as to not be that attractice in the first place.

The notion that they could do this within 9 months is laughable. The Zune took a year to come to fruition based on existing technology, and it appears to be buggier than any other product on the market (the skipping issue, shutdown issues, poor software), and the strategy has shown no signs of extending from the one form factor or outside the US borders. (Apple conversely developed the iPod in less than a year back in 2001 and did introduce, at the time, more substantial innovations.) By the time, Microsoft refreshes the Zune and before it gets to a single other country, the iPhone will be out and Apple will have video stores in Europe. (Apple had a deal with Cingular two years ago, has been developing the device for two solid years, and had further R&D projects going back much further.)

Any substantial decisions being made would apparently either involve a hardware partner or a carrier partner. (Otherwise, I wouldn’t attach much credence to the “rumors” or the idea that it could be “realized” in a 9 month span.) In which case, I would imagine such talks actually emerge because of the iPhone threat (Verizon for example seeing the potential for Cingular to acquire a decent % of new subscribers and/or HTC or other manufacturers having serious concerns about growth (most have been trying to make a consumer market because the business market actually is not that large and is already fairly constrained). Any such marriage, made out of fair and in an attempt to copy a potential threat by doing it cheaper and faster, is problematic from the start.

The Zune team already seemed outmatched and overworked. (Again, still in just U.S., still one form factor, still none of those promised firmware updates that “add” features). J Allard is not the wunderkind that he’s been lauded as… Now he has to handle XBox and Zune and a Zune Phone strategy? Microsoft is overextending themselves and at the same time not overextending themselves fast enough (MS likes to claim happiness with Zune, but it is very flawed to think that they can judge their “success” by very individualized and tailored metrics that made sense in 2001 when the market was underdeveloped.) Such attempts will only speed the failure of MS’s media strategy: shortening the lifespan of the Zune strategy from 5 years to 3 if they think they can already move past one market where they are weigh behind to enter another new market.

“fair” = fear

“weigh” = way

Stupid brain, stupid homophones.

I wonder what operating system they would use? They could use Microsoft Mobile but what about options that might be available from the third party for a Windows CE version like Soleus from Intrinsyc Software?

http://soleus.intrinsyc.com/

Nice rumor! Does the decision not to use Windows Mobile mean anything? I blogged one possibility at http://iphonenote.com/view/show/13

Microsoft needs to come up with an original idea. Seriously.

What a joke.

They want to clone and enhance their cripped device to copy another cripped device (iPhone) - badly

Yeah, making thr UI like Zune would great for developers, I dont think. If they updated windows mobile and made their mobile browser half useful, by supporting simple things like file upload in web forms and Flash etc, then their connectable devices would be incredibly popular in today’s social and creative market/developer-place.

How idiotic. I hope it’s true, then I’ll have something worthwhile putting on zunestone.com

:)

You’d be better off waiting for the ‘ChocoNokiSonyrola’ ;)

Copied from TMO:

Today’s edition of a major Barcelona newspaper features an interview to the president of Microsoft Iberica about the recent release of Vista. Let me post an English translation of one of the questions she answered.

Q: Although it is a software company, Microsoft is increasingly present in the consumer hardware market. Is that a change of perspective?

A: We are a software company that considers consumers very seriously. In the digital entertainment business, we would have preferred that music players came with our software, but in practice none of the currently existing players has succeeded to seriously compete with Apple, so we had no other choice than to launch our own player. However, mobile phones are different: our operating system runs in more than 150 devices of very diverse brands, so we do not see the need of a Microsoft branded phone.

I am surprised by folks who don’t see the value in connecting to the 360. After all it is just a big computer with a big hard drive. As both the Zune and XBox evolve they will use more and more of their computing and storage power and there will of course be crossover applications.

I am also surprised that folks laud Apple’s openness while deriding MS proprietary inclinations. Apple has always kept tight reigns on its OS and hardware which is in part why the OS is so seamless and the hardware looks and feels so good. On the flip side, it is also why there is only a fraction of the hardware and software options for Macs compared to PCs. It is also why Macs cost more and by extension have a smaller user base.

I suspect that the Zune and the zPhone will follow a similar path relative to the iPhone and iPod. At first it won’t be nearly as good and perhaps never as nice as the Apple flavor, but MS will be faster about opening up the Zune to 3rd party developers and appliance builders as well as being faster to open their devices to other service providers. If they do, they will end up with the larger market share.

…though MS really dropped the ball with PlaysForSure, so maybe they have forgotten the lesson of DOS.

@Tim… great analysis, excellent points. Where’s your blog?

Hope it’s better than this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRLRjKCGHek

Ok,ENough with the unbased assumptions:

1.-Ms had a plan for the zune and the zune phone almost at the same time, that goes back to 2005.

2.-The zune was done and delivered in 8 months.

3.-No, the Zuphone will not go with a wm os it will go with something new, more likely a cross of the wm and the own zune interface.

4.-MS still supports the playforsure and are by triying to make other companies to get into it, and the actual reason why the zune didn´t went with playforsure was because of it´s own drm scheme, that was needed to change faster that PFS, so it was decided that the zune could not get into playforsure for that reason until it had grabbed enough market, but it was never left out that it could not integrate in a later date.

5.-the zune is not crippled because it can be upgraded at any moment via firmware, there is a layout of posible features and future features that could get added to the zune, one of those are the not that known are DJ zune, K-GO and Directour among others, the same goes for the zune software..

6.-The zune phone started being developed since the zune launched, and the reason to J.Allard to enters in full to the zune division, is that very reason..

7.-the zune coming out in 2007 was something Ballmer talked about in a interview….

so… there you go.

You know, I’d place money on the fact that Ballmer legally changed his name to Steve after he saw what Apple was doing with their CEO.

MS has a loooooooooooong way to go before they’re quality matches MAC. They are copying the iPhone obviously since the whole mac phone rumor thing started in the 90’s

“1.-Ms had a plan for the zune and the zune phone almost at the same time, that goes back to 2005.”

According to the same people who said you would get your iTunes replaced for free? The most recent statements deny a Zune Phone.

“2.-The zune was done and delivered in 8 months.”

No, more than 12 months. And not very well. And they had older projects prior to it being apparent that PFS was a complete failure.

“3.-No, the Zuphone will not go with a wm os it will go with something new, more likely a cross of the wm and the own zune interface.”

WM with a Zune skin is still WM. The Zune software is just WMP with less functionality and a skin.

“4.-MS still supports the playforsure and are by triying to make other companies to get into it, and the actual reason why the zune didn´t went with playforsure was because of it´s own drm scheme, that was needed to change faster that PFS, so it was decided that the zune could not get into playforsure for that reason until it had grabbed enough market, but it was never left out that it could not integrate in a later date.”

Are you out of breath? Zune is screwing over PFS partners. Zune is taking marketshare from PFS partners. Hence, PFS partners are creating closer distinct ties with Real and/or Napster. Zune DRM and PFS will not merge. Maybe they will both die though…

“5.-the zune is not crippled because it can be upgraded at any moment via firmware, there is a layout of posible features and future features that could get added to the zune, one of those are the not that known are DJ zune, K-GO and Directour among others, the same goes for the zune software..”

It is currently crippled, and every device has updateable firmware. There is nothing special about Zune. Firmware doesn’t mean you’ll get these features; the fact that these features were pulled means MS has to listen to the studios. In other words, despite the promises, Zune had fewer features, not more.

“6.-The zune phone started being developed since the zune launched, and the reason to J.Allard to enters in full to the zune division, is that very reason..”

Nonsense.

“7.-the zune coming out in 2007 was something Ballmer talked about in a interview….”

Zune came out in 2006. Ballmer said he’s happy with current mobile strategy during several of his most recent interviews.

LG already has released a sh*t brown phone with the Chocolate. Microsoft has nothing left to contribute to this space. Better luck next time.

@Tim… Fanboy much?

You gotta love fanboys that put that much work into it so they can claim later that they are right on all accounts and are not a fanboy…

The Zune Phone sounds like the natural progression and isn’t a copy of anything… How about we see what they bring and not spew a bunch of one-sided speculations, fake facts, and ridiculous observations….

Or we can just compare the high-end market of the 1st generation Zune to ALL the iPods and keep our head’s up Apple’s ….

and then assume that MS should only go after one market and not expand into markets that really dont (and possibly still wont in June) have anything really standing out…

“@Tim… Fanboy much?”

Huh?

“You gotta love fanboys that put that much work into it so they can claim later that they are right on all accounts and are not a fanboy… ”

Double Huh? You think I’m right on all acounts? Thanks!

“The Zune Phone sounds like the natural progression and isn’t a copy of anything… ”

Triple Huh?

“How about we see what they bring and not spew a bunch of one-sided speculations, fake facts, and ridiculous observations….”

Fake facts? Like?

“Or we can just compare the high-end market of the 1st generation Zune to ALL the iPods and keep our head’s up Apple’s …. ”

…or we can pretend that Zune hits multiple product segments and has multiple generations before this is true?

“and then assume that MS should only go after one market and not expand into markets that really dont (and possibly still wont in June) have anything really standing out…”

MS has been one of those non-stand-outs for years now.

Doubtful they could crank out a mobile phone by the holidays. An insanely aggressive timeline for a completely ground-up development of a new mobile phone is about a year for an experienced handset manufacturer like Motorola or Nokia. For Microsoft to push their first-ever handset to market in only 10 months of development (gotta be in store by mid-Nov to capture the holiday rush) is beyond insanely aggressive. It’s darn near impossible.

If this rumour is true then it hasn’t taken Microsoft long to get this organised. Off course if they make as bad a job of the phone as they have done of the original Zune then no body will buy it except for Gates himself.

I doubt it’ll be as good…apple spent years on their phone and accumulated hundreds of patents. It’ll be loaded with a touchscreen, acceleromater and other good stuff.
Can Microsoft throw together a decent zune phone in 9 months? Probably..but can they come up with a revolutionary new phone that beats everything else out there by miles? That’s a tall order for anyone. My guess is they’ll be playing catch-up to come up with something decent.

Gus ain’t too bright. Apple’s run all Mac OS X software, most Unix/Linux software, and with Parallels most Windows software. That’s more software, not less. With over ten thousand native applications there isn’t any real shortage of Mac software. Fact is I’ve had Windows users come to me asking me for things that were easy to find on the Mac. ;)

Apple’s openness can be seen in real open source projects like Darwin and WebKit. There is a proprietary layer on top of it, to be sure, but at least the foundation is open and that is more than you can say for Microsoft. I can take Darwin and spin off my own OS if I so desired. Show me how I can do that with MS “public source” garbage?

“If this rumour is true then it hasn’t taken Microsoft long to get this organised.”

Did you read the rumor? The rumor has it all starting today, commitment to it, but real discussion just starting, that they are just figuring out details now:

“Our tipsters inform us that Microsoft execs are in meetings today hammering out details of the device and developing strategies and timescales for its release.”

Geez! I can’t wait for an iPone, I mean ZuneFone, I wonder what colors it will be? Hospital green? I’m hoping for a urine yellow so I can buy a matching crap brown Zune too.
It would be nice if they innovated something, let alone do it correctly. I think they need a new think tank. Those brains are belly up.